Highlights from this week’s conversation include:
Abundant Aging is a podcast series presented by United Church Homes. These shows offer ideas, information, and inspiration on how to improve our lives as we grow older. To learn more and to subscribe to the show, visit abundantagingpodcast.com.
Michael Hughes 00:04 Hello, and this is Mike. I’m one of the hosts of the Abundant Aging podcast. Rev. Beth Long-Higgins 00:08 And this is Beth on the other host for the podcast. And I think this is the first time, Mike, that you and I have appeared together on the podcast. Michael Hughes 00:16 But it’s certainly not the last time, Beth, and we’re looking forward to some upcoming shows where you and I can really unpack some of the foundational tropes of ageism. And I think hopefully use that as a great foundation leading into our symposium in October, right? Rev. Beth Long-Higgins 00:30 Absolutely. It’ll be October 4 2020 For this year, and more information and teasing about that, in the upcoming weeks. In the meantime, we’re taking a little bit of a summer break here, and I’m going to invite you to revisit some of the fantastic conversations that we’ve had over the course of the past year or so. Michael Hughes 00:51 That’s right. So absolutely, make sure to stay tuned and listen to more of great content that you’ve already enjoyed. And please send us your ideas for future guests, future episodes, whatever you need to share, or whatever you’d like to share at abundant ag podcast.com. Looking Rev. Beth Long-Higgins 01:07 forward to hearing from you and to providing new episodes coming a little bit later this summer. Thanks all for participating and, and listening and being with us here on the abundant aging podcast. Michael Hughes 01:22 Thanks for listening, I’ll look forward to seeing you guys back in the fall. Rev. Beth Long-Higgins 01:28 How are you defining it? Or what is it? What does the individual look like in your mind that you think would be attractive, and that you’re going to be looking towards inviting to be in the spaces. Elizabeth White 01:46 So I’m thinking of sort of late 50s to middle seven days, I’m thinking of people who are in reasonably good health may have a chronic condition or two, but they’re managing it with medication, I’m thinking that they are aging alone as defined earlier, which could mean children but not children who can help. They may still be working part time. I think one of the realities is that if you make it to 60 in this country, and have reasonably good health, you’re going to live well into your 80s. And so when you think about retiring at 65, you may have 20 more years that you have to fund. So we haven’t really gotten our AI arms around that 65 is not realistic for a lot of people. And they may not be working full time, but they may need to supplement Social Security or if they have a small pension or savings. So this person might be working and maybe part of a chosen family. So may not, you know, have as a solo Ager, the sort of traditional family support that has at this point, developed a strong network of friends that kind of act as that sort of alternative chosen family. And then would be you know, sort of I would say income kind of in the 45 to maybe 65,000 A year range. Rev. Beth Long-Higgins 03:31 Yeah, absolutely. You know, and I’m just so impressed and aware of how holistically you’re thinking about all of this in terms of not only the physical environment, but in not only the amenities, but the realities of what life looks like past one’s primary career. You know, Richard Eisenberg says the only thing retirement tells you is that somebody used to work and that’s not a life phase. And obviously, there are many who are in this middle income, who may need to work periodically, part time or full time for financial reasons. But I think one of the things that we’re coming into awareness as a culture is that the individuals who are continuing again, post primary careers to be engaged in employment. Sometimes it’s not about the money but it’s about meaning and purpose and recognizing that, you know, we still have things to contribute and that this that that is as important to, to one’s well being as having the housing and and in access to, to the all the other special aspects of carrying around us. Elizabeth White 05:01 No, I totally agree. And I have to shout out Richard Eisenberg. Because when I wrote my essay and was in despair, he was the one who published it and got it really out there. So he’s been a big support, you know, from the beginning. And had he not taken the chance on that essay. You and I might not be sitting here talking. Yeah, Rev. Beth Long-Higgins 05:24 yeah. And he now calls himself unretired. So, yeah, so, so, you know, they’re all kinds of creative ways for us to define what this period of life is going to be like. So, what are your biggest, biggest obstacles in creating this, really taking this concept of cohousing in this country? For older adults forward? Because it’s really not one that people think about much. You know, like you said, it’s pretty typical for younger adults. I know I have an adult child who lives in a cohousing situation in Washington, DC, because that was all she could afford when she was starting out. And, and quite frankly, the thought of having to replicate kind of what she did in her 20s For me, and my 70s is not really appealing. So there have to be some differences there. But what are the biggest obstacles that you see in helping to define what this is and to attract other people to imagine this possibility? I think that, Elizabeth White 06:40 You know, we live in a country that we’re very focused on as individuals, we’re focused on, you know, defining achievement a certain way we’re, we don’t like to talk about when we are struggling. And so there’s a certain amount of shame that’s out there around, you know, everybody needs their own snowblower everybody needs their own car. And, you know, this sort of way of living is actually like, it’s not that many years of the nuclear family, there was an extended family before that, that was many more years of families kind of living near each other. And now, kind of, I think we have much more of an example of sort of chosen family, when you look at the data, you know, we will remember, you know, Leave It to Beaver, you know, our generation, that household of two adults, and you know, two or more children under 18. That is not the sort of dominant household type anymore. It’s not the first, it’s not the second, the biggest household type right now are individuals who are living alone, followed by two individuals who do not have children. So we’re in a situation where, and we’re living a lot longer, you know, when Social Security was enacted in 1935, the sort of life expectancy was 70. So if you made it to 65, you only had a few years to put together and then you died. Now, you’ve got a lot of years, and it’s going to be hard for us, for many middle class Americans to do this by themselves. So how do you strike the balance in the housing for the privacy that we’re used to, and the community that we need? And so that’s why I have really resisted. I’ve had people. Oh, no, we just put people in dorm rooms, that is not going to work for me there. I am used to having a certain space with certain options in that space. And so designing something that strikes that balance. And so sometimes you don’t know what you want, until you’ve seen it. You didn’t know you needed an Apple Watch. Or you see it. So one of the challenges is finding that developer who actually sees this issue and wants to do something different. And I’m confident that they’re out there. Whenever I’m speaking to someone you can see across their face. As I’m talking, they’re thinking of somebody, Alice, Bob, somebody who was in at all I have to say as someone who they used to be fine with, and now they’re not fine. It may be their sister or maybe somebody’s living in their basement. But this is so dominant, so predominant a problem that everybody is experiencing it. So what I’m wanting to talk to the right developer about is can we change our housing type to include one that includes the new reality that is happening for many, many Americans. And so I haven’t been out there sort of hard pitching yet, I’m still kind of developing the materials. So I don’t know how hard it will be. What I do know is there’s a lot of interest in what I’m doing. And I’ve had sort of intro conversations with developers who want to stay informed and stay close. And here where I’m landing. So I, what’s important now is getting up, I think, a couple of prototypes that we can then work with and figure out what’s the learning so that when we do this in a much bigger way, because I think this is something that really, all across America, we need this new sort of housing type, for older adults in an intergenerational setting. And so those are the conversations that I’m beginning to have. And really, in about a month and a half we’ll be having in earnest with developers, those who are seeking me out and those I have identified and want to talk to, Rev. Beth Long-Higgins 11:47 I love your identifying the challenge between our, our need or desire for privatization, and our need for community. And I think that a part of the challenge in the American context for thinking about this kind of a concept, and maybe why it’s a little bit more developed in Europe, has to do with American individualism. And we, you know, we, our goal is to grow up to be an adult and to be independent and individual and, you know, as we age, we need other people in a variety of ways. And, and, you know, the dawning that we are interdependent is, I think, key to wellbeing in later life. And what I hear you describing in, in this concept of CO living is, is recognizing that interdependence of and and I love the intergenerational component, which you are holding up as being so key and important in what you’re designing. My mother is one of those persons who, you know, has been a kindergarten teacher for years. And she always said, I am not going to go and live somewhere where there aren’t kids around there, you know, their, their busyness there noise doesn’t bother me, and is I actually find it Elizabeth White 13:23 Now, and one of the things I said earlier is that in my friendship circle, and this is intentional, you know, where I am friends, and I’m intentional about developing those relationships. And, and both ends of the spectrum, and have found young people to be very receptive to you know, I was at a, one of my architects who’s probably 34, or 35, had a, a party and I missed the part of the party where it said, Everybody’s to come dressed in black. So I get there, of course, I have on brown or something else. I actually went home. I didn’t live that far away. But I went all the way home to change the sort of respect for the app because it was a very cool, fun environment. I was the oldest one by far. It was one of the most fun parties I had. I’ve gone for a long time just engaging young people seeing what they’re talking about and what they’re doing in the world, and it’s energizing in a different way. And so I want that, included in what I’m, I’m building. Rev. Beth Long-Higgins 14:43 Fantastic. One more question here. And if you could wave a wand and imagine or even in your, in your very practical planning for all of this, what types of technologies Do you suspect that the prospective residents of CO living would demand or appreciate and, and would be affordable, given the, the the demographic of who you’re looking forward to move into these communities? Elizabeth White 15:19 So I’m thinking, and we’ll be looking at sort of ambient technologies that maybe are not so app based. I’ve since seen some data that we don’t love that. Love that. And so it’s really explore, you know, there’s so much out there, I want to explore, you know, sort of smart technology for the home smart technology for the, you know, amazing things now that they can monitor in terms of, you know, the way toilets are just measuring whether you’re dehydrated, measuring, whether they’re you’re there’s sugar or blood, and sort of, you know, how far do we want to go with? You know, the technology and what is affordable? I mean, I, whenever I’m at a conference, and you know, there’s something with all the bells and whistles, I’m sort of the one who raises the question about affordability, but I do see a role and, you know, sort of temperature control and that kind of thing, I do see a role, you know, where I can, I’m doing a big dinner party in our shared space, and I want to be able to look at a monitor, and know that I can’t go into the kitchen until 4pm, because you have something there. So I think there’s, I think there is a way to connect us to what’s happening in the community and a way to, you know, build in some of the sort of grocery delivery services and all of that that is now happening, is there a way to kind of combine some of those together in a way that’s easier to use. So I don’t see myself as the inventor. I see myself as the partner with people who are interested in this audience and are developing technologies that are for us.