Functional Health as We Age

Michael Hughes 00:07
Hello and welcome to The Art of Aging which is part of the abundant aging podcast series where United Church homes. On this show we look at what it means to age in America and in other places around the world with positive and empowering conversations that challenge, encourage and inspire everyone everywhere to age with abundance. Today, I am so pleased to welcome Maxine Hochhouser to the show. Maxine currently serves as the chief executive officer for HealthPro Heritage which is a national provider of OT, PT, speech and other rehabilitative services for people of all ages. And United Church Homes currently has such a fantastic relationship with HealthPro for skilled nursing and our other buildings, a relationship we truly value. Maxine began her extensive and impressive career as a physical therapist. But most recently, she was president of the home and community based Services Division of l. H. C group, which is one of the biggest Home Care Home HealthProviders post acute providers in the country. Prior to LHC, a Mexican held senior leadership positions with Addus homecare as the CEO, a Medicis as senior vice president Alliance care as an CNO CEO, Visiting Nurses Association or VNA as its president and CEO, and the Metropolitan Jewish Health System as its CEO. Maxine, welcome.

Maxine Hochhouser 01:21
Thank you, Michael, for having me today. I’m really excited to be part of this. And as you said, we value the relationship with the United Church home. So really excited to have this dialogue today. Yeah, and

Michael Hughes 01:34
I gotta say, I mean, you’ve basically had a tour of duty through tons of major players in the post acute space. But, you know, you started your training as a physical therapist, and now here you are as CEO of health, pro Heritage, does this feel like coming home to you? It

Maxine Hochhouser 01:50
really did. And I actually felt that and said that when I was interviewing for the position, it took all my experiences, plus my training and licensure as a PT, and brought them all together. So a great culmination of my career, and really excited to be part of the Healthpro Heritage

Michael Hughes 02:08
story. Yeah, and I’m someone that’s definitely passionate about the the world of physical and occupational, you know, therapies, you know, we certainly explore a lot of innovations together as organizations, including things like dual tasking, exercise, gamified, exercise, all these little things, but what’s it like to work with someone and work with somebody over time to achieve these real Bill rehabilitative goals, and to actually see them make progress? Or what’s it like when they recognize that they’re making progress?

Maxine Hochhouser 02:37
It’s truly rewarding. And I don’t know if there’s another word that I could describe. It really gives meaning to people’s lives. We talk about enhancing wellness and lifestyle is part of our mission and HealthPro Heritage. And that’s really what we’re trying to do. You take the person from where they are, and whatever we can do to improve their daily activities, what they do each day, their ability to accomplish something that really is what we’re attempting to do. And so, you know, we talk about lifestyle. And it sounds weird. When we say lifestyle, we provide care to people in skilled nursing facilities, but that is their lifestyle, and to the extent we can enhance it to the extent they can participate in activities. And in addition to the therapies, we work really closely with these facilities to enhance their activities programs as well, so that they’re meaningful, that they’re not just redundant things, but that there is something we’re attempting to accomplish as part of those activities that enhances people. And that’s truly what we’re all about. Yeah,

Michael Hughes 03:47
no care. Yeah. And it’s really great to see it in action, you know, because I think that, you know, we’ve had previous guests on the show talking about things like dual tasking, and so on. But I guess it’s kind of a trope. When you talk about older people, you know, first of all, on the one hand, would you agree with that kind of thing? I mean, how important is functional health? Like, how do you see one’s attitudes towards functional health evolving as we age? What happens when you’re over the age of 65? I know I’m generalizing here, but I just wanted to explore that with you.

Maxine Hochhouser 04:24
I mean, there’s been a perception that people deteriorate and it’s kind of a natural evolution that people are going to deteriorate. But we’ve all seen examples of older individuals running marathons or participating. So we really look at it as how can we help people continue to do those things that were always meaningful to them? You know, if going on a bicycle was meaningful, maybe they can’t cycle outside but they can use your recumbent bicycle within a facility. We have a program that we have with one of our partners where We work with Parkinson’s individuals and have them on bicycles and have them cycling for part of their recovery. You know, if somebody just wants to get outside and walk, we can do that if somebody swims, and there’s a pool available, we do a lot of therapy in the pool as well. So it’s really taking what was important to someone and not having everyone perceive that just because they’re old, they can’t do it.

Michael Hughes 05:25
Yeah. And when you’re thinking about, I guess, when you contrast what you did what you guys do, as therapists with sort of clinical care, you know, when you’re talking about clinical care pathways, and seems to be you know, very regimented, you know, you kind of go to these databases of people that kind of look around your age and weight, and you have clinical condition. And it’s all about which medication is very clinical, but what’s therapy? I mean, it seems like you guys spend as much time learning how to be, you know, like, like, mental health therapists, as you do, actually encouraging somebody to do that. I mean, what’s, I guess, what are the tricks of the physical therapy game, to find out what really motivates someone, and then to kind of keep that, like a carrot in front of somebody to kind of keep them adhering to their therapies themselves?

Maxine Hochhouser 06:16
Well, you just said it, what motivates them. So I, you know, we have a lot of social media clips, and you can see various exercises that we do with people. And in one clip, we’re doing golf, and we have people standing with a golf club, and they’re putting in, you know, it’s a balanced activity, and it helps them with hand eye coordination helps with balance, it helps them function, you know, with their functional status, but that’s meaningful. It’s taking somebody in and figuring out what they liked to do? And can they do some version of it, you know, it’s why some of the AI stuff is so important, where people can put on glasses, and they can play tennis, and they can swing and they can feel like they’re participating. And when somebody is engaged, and it’s something that’s meaningful to them, you get them to stretch a little bit, you get them to participate a little bit more, and they see the excitement of it. And then when they do something a little bit better than yesterday, then they feel good about it. And they want to come back, I mean, the other thing that we have, which is a really special program, and we touched on is Angel civilities. And it’s a program that we have for people who are facing organic brain disease, Alzheimer’s, or other dementias. And what we really do is we meet them where they are, we understand their strengths. And we continue to engage them within their environments, so it improves our quality of life. And so we don’t just look at people and say, Oh, they have dementia, and they can’t participate. We keep enhancing what they’re doing, based on where they are at that point. And so this one we call it age, disability is there’s no age, there’s no status, but we look at where someone is, and we say Let’s enhance their ability to do things. No, I

Michael Hughes 08:07
I absolutely love that. And I think you know, you have to set it, you know, obviously, you know, you can’t go back to who you were when you’re in your 20s. But is it true that you can regain strength and SOAP flexibility at it at any age, I

Maxine Hochhouser 08:19
I guess it can continue to gain strength and flexibility. I mean, that’s really what we’re doing. We look to try to get people to improve. We had examples of people who saw, you know, they were at a certain functional level, they suffer a stroke or they suffer a fall and we’re able to bring them back to the foyer functional status, sometimes they’re a little stronger and healthier than they were even prior because, you know, we went through it. Now, unfortunately, some people are not able to achieve that because of the extent of the injury. But we don’t stop, we continue to try and say can we improve Kelleigh? What will allow them to engage with friends and family or other people within the setting that they’re living?

Michael Hughes 09:02
When it comes to you know, how are your services reimbursed? And we’re thinking about the post acute world, you know, somebody’s been in the hospital, they’re going through their choices and have been made skilled nursing real book rehabilitative therapy? Do you feel that therapy is underrepresented as an opportunity in post acute care? And do you feel that not enough people know that therapy is even a benefit can post acute care? I

Maxine Hochhouser 09:29
I think people truly understand the benefit of therapy. You know, sometimes you’ll hear people say, Oh, they just walk me down the hall or they really didn’t do anything with me and people don’t realize that you get the most out of it if you make it functional, but when you make it functional people like you know under undervalue it and they don’t necessarily feel value, I think right now, and there’s a lot of things therapists can do in terms of holistic approach to the individual, particularly when they’re in long term care, or they’re in senior living, you know, so that I don’t think it’s value in the same way. Nor do they value the lens that a therapist looks at someone. So we do a lot in the senior living space. And we’ll do functional assessments, we’ll do comprehensive assessments with individuals. And many times our recommendation is not therapy, it will be functional exercise programs, or functional wellness programs or functional lifestyle programs that will prevent the person from deteriorating from having a full from getting rehospitalized. And, you know, it sounds kind of counterintuitive that a therapy company would say, you really don’t need therapy at this time. But let’s work with a facility to enhance their activities programs, because if you engage people in all aspects, they tend to be healthier mentally and physically. And how does it

Michael Hughes 10:59
What percentage of the work that you do is in a facility? And what percent is actually in the homes of the people? Who are your is it better to say patients or clients, I

Maxine Hochhouser 11:11
use the word clients, it’s just historically the way I’ve been trained. In certain cases, yes, they are patients or patients that have a long term care facility, the percentage varies depending on the settings. So if we’re in a long term care facility, there’s some you know, certain people that come down to the gym, if they’re capable. Other people have to get bedside treatment, because of the stage of their illness. Our preference is to bring people into the gym, in both, you know, in any of our settings, so that they can make use of all the other, you know, the other adaptive equipment that we have, or bicycles that we have, or stairs training and you know, any of the training equipment that we have. So that’s it’s really our goal is to get somebody out of their room and to walk and to really the goal being community activity to Can somebody returned to their community, that community may be an independent living or their community may be the long term care setting, but can they get out of the room and not necessarily just be bed bound and stuck in a room?

Michael Hughes 12:16
You know, just something just popped in my head when you said the word stairs? Now, there’s a lot of tropes when it comes to people that are older in their 80s and their 90s. And so on about one, we covered that already. It’s like, you know, you can’t regain strength or flexibility or what have you. I think that you know, stairs are always something. Oh, I want mom to move out of the house, her house because there’s all those stairs in the house. So I guess on the one hand, you know, knowing what stairs do for those key muscles, you know, core muscles, leg muscles, things like that, you’d want somebody who is used to climbing stairs to kind of continue climbing stairs, right?

Maxine Hochhouser 12:53
You would want them to continue in some cases, you have to look at the stairs, I mean, and people’s homes are filled in all different, you know, stages and times over time. And you know, I spent a good portion of my career in home Hill. So I’ve been into lots of different homes that you know, you’d go in you could drive down the street and you go to a lot of different homes and some of them are not conducive others are a bit more conducive to getting somebody there are adaptive things like chair legs and stair lifts and stuff with chairs that you can do so that someone who’s not functionally homebound. You know, particularly where they’re functionally homebound by that I mean they can’t get out because they can’t get out of the stairs so they could walk around but they’re stuck in their house. So that’s where you know you have to be creative in that sector in that of post acute in the home care arena to say how can we get somebody potentially out of the house because stairs can be problematic doing stairs alone can be problematic balance if the you know this step is not long enough for wide enough it becomes a little bit too steep sometimes for individuals

Michael Hughes 14:04
no Understood. Understood. You know, I was we had a I think we had a previous episode we were talking about home safety and some people have just even the little things right when it comes to home safety and those adjustments you know the height of a chair, the height of a commode, the height of your you know, the fact you may have a stair runner, but if you’re helping someone your mate your foot may go half on the stair runner and half off the stair runner. I mean, there’s a lot there to unpack that will tell you where my mind is going now is I’m gonna throw some numbers at you just didn’t have underlie I think for listeners, really the importance of or at least this is this was my lightbulb moment when it came to the importance of OT PT speech therapy. I think the Commonwealth Fund puts out stats on patient profiles and what they cost the healthcare system. And I think I’m gonna hopefully not screw this up. If you have three or more chronic conditions, you probably cost the healthcare system about 50% more on average. If you have three or more chronic conditions and a functional one notation. So the trouble of walking or dressing or transferring or things like that costs the healthcare system about 330% more on average, because you trip and you fall, and you go to the most expensive site of care, which is the hospital. And it just occurs to me that and at least, I think that’s that there are three or more chronics functional limitations. That’s about 5% of US patients, that they consume about 25%, or almost 25% of all healthcare spending. So when I think about that, I start to think about the, you know, the age wave. I start to think about, you know, the rise of managed care models where reducing hospitalization and rehospitalization rates seems to be kind of the biggest, you know, objective. I mean, therapy services, like the ones you provide, I mean, I would say are pretty essential in terms of a holistic managed care offering. And have you guys started doing it? Are you guys involved with that? Have you modeled that out for what HealthPro is doing?

Maxine Hochhouser 15:58
We haven’t fully modeled it out. I mean, think there’s a number of value based care initiatives, which fall into what you’re talking about, from the, you know, the MRA, side in from the Medicare side, they tend to be more on ruptures facility, and less on, there would be his contribution to measuring it out in terms of value based care. But when you look at value based care, you start looking at quality measures, walls, pain mobility scores, that your current therapy has a direct involvement in nose initiatives, I think, you know, the concern isn’t used properly. For those people where it’s, quote, maintenance, or the long term care stays where bite as a wedding, a certain amount of therapy, we can reduce false, which then reduces the cost to the system makes the person more healthier, we can address their pain, if they’re in pain, they don’t necessarily participate to the fullest extent that they can, because there’s pain, limiting their movement or pain, limiting, limiting their ability to participate. And if we enhance their mobility, just by getting up and walking and moving, you know, your whole body functions there. And so it’s really important, it hasn’t been quantified here’s the total value that therapy alone can provide, unfortunately, as MA plans start looking at some of it, they’re looking at their relation to that facility, less though, to the interaction directly with the therapy company. Yeah, yeah. And

Michael Hughes 17:32
when you talk about it just sounds like naturally you do work with it. I mean, managed care is supposed to be a team based approach, you’re supposed to be working with other providers. But because you see, or because you work with things like motivation, you work with things like even dietary changes, you see the relationship between medications, and, and risks of falls, and things like that. So is it just a natural for companies like yours, to try to work with other providers,

Maxine Hochhouser 18:01
You know, we work very closely with other providers, I mean, it is the holistic approach to an individual and every individual is different, depending on the circumstances that occur there. So we work really closely in those facilities that we’re in, you know, in a very holistic approach. I mean, it’s with their physicians, it’s switching with the nursing department. It’s, you know, with dietary, I mean, speech and artists speech and feeding, swallowing and eating, you know, you have to be able to, to, if they’re having problems swallowing, they’re not going to eat, if you’re only giving them soft, cludes. And the person finds it completely appetizing, they’re not going to eat so then they become malnourished, or they’re not eating adequate, you know, nutrition, in order to do the things that we’re looking to do. So it’s all very interconnected. You can’t just look at one thing and say, Oh, they have to eat more, can they swallow? Are they foods that are appetizing? How can speech help with that? What’s the oral motor functioning that enables them or prevents them from eating? Yeah.

Michael Hughes 19:10
And I think that’s an important thing for our listeners to understand that, you know, I think you’re talking about occupational physical therapy, we’re talking about speech, but it’s just natural the way that you guys operate. I mean, you know, I’ve said on previous episodes, and I stole this from my friend, Victor Wang, and Cara coach, he says, if you’re a cardiologist, you know everything about the heart, if you’re in this world, you know, everything about, you know, complexity, and how different factors kind of, you know, index here and there. And we always talk about this idea of motivation that, you know, what I like to say is that nobody takes their pills because they like how they taste, right? They’re

Maxine Hochhouser 19:47
great. And, you know, as you’re talking I’m thinking about under different circumstances. You also have to understand the lens of the individuals so if someone had a stroke or they’re having problems feeding themselves, there’s A certain amount of dignity if you want to give them as much dignity as they can. Are there foods that they can manage to eat themselves? Or do they have to wait for someone to come and feed them? I mean, so when you go back to the whole issue, it may not only be oral motor, it may be physical, can I get the food to my mouth to eat it? Are we looking at an optimal way to give that person the most independence, so they retain their dignity in their ability to eat isn’t something that they remotely find tasty, or they don’t want to eat. And I’ve seen that level of frustration for a lot of people who’ve had acute, and you know, strokes or acute episodes that cause them to not be able to feed themselves. A, there’s a lot of demeaning, you have to do this in a way. And I think, you know, when we chatted before we did this, you know, I shared that, on a personal level, my mother had a stroke last summer. And she was getting both PT, physical and occupational speech therapy and cognitive and speech was working on cognition. And it was really a physical impairment. And she said to the speech pathologist, readings, stop, they were having her address envelopes. And she was like, I’m not going to do that, like, do this with someone who needs it, I want more physical therapy, because it’s physical, I need to be able to get up and walk myself in. So you really have to also talk to people and find out what they want to accomplish? Yeah, give them goals, you have to understand if they are participating, and this is the goal that they want, they will get much further in your rehabilitation.

Michael Hughes 21:37
Yeah, and I just think, again, that’s why I think you guys are such a valuable actor, in a team approach for holistic care, you know, you’re able to draw out those motivations and with their permission, share them, they’re able to sort of draw the lines between, you know, one action here and the limitation of that action in another context. You know, I think it was Bob Kramer, I had him on the show, and he was talking about, you know, somebody should create, like, a recognized engagement as the link between your physical self and engagement, your handshake, do you want to go outside and engage with the world? I mean, you guys must see that all the time with physical decline and how that may lead to social isolation or the damaging effects of social isolation. And that’s incredibly important to let everybody know about right? Yes,

Maxine Hochhouser 22:25
no, it really is, you’ve got to understand the individual, you’ve got to understand who they were before. And then you really, a lot of times people don’t take the time to talk to the person and say, What do you want to accomplish? Or is the person’s goals in line with what we’re doing with therapy? And do they understand how these things build, to enable them to achieve a goal? I mean, over the many years that I’ve done this, you know, there’s been all kinds of different success stories. I want to go to my grandchild’s wedding. And so we’re going to get this person to a functional status that they can get to that wedding, it didn’t mean they were gonna get up and walk down the aisle, or maybe it was that they were gonna get walked down the aisle. And that was the motivation for them. And so many times we impose versus engaging them from the very beginning. And so I’ll go back even to our programming disabilities, where we take that individual with dementia, who may not be anywhere near as functional as they were before or minimally functional, and say, We’re going to meet you where you are. And we’re going to build from that point forward.

Michael Hughes 23:39
Yeah, and especially when you’re talking about people with dementia, and you these are people that still, you know, you give them that feeling of agency and control over what they’re doing. And I think that’s so important when you’re talking about, you know, supporting somebody with the cognitive condition, you know, when I think about what you guys do well, I mean, if we’re talking about complexity, we’re dealing with our bodies, which are, of course, very complex things. And outside of the clinical world, you know, we talk about just, you know, just working with hands and feet, and when you look at the structures of that, you see just how amazingly lucky we are to have these, these complex things that just seem to work all the time. And here you are kind of diving into not only this MindScape and designing a program that’s right for someone’s motivations, but you also have the, you know, these physical conditions to deal with. And we’re seeing so many interesting things with innovation in our space now, especially with AI and so on. I know that, you know, I visited with your staff a few weeks ago, and one of the gentlemen you have just demonstrated to sort of an AI hand assessment tool and for people on videos, you know, imagine that, you know, AI sort of like tons of different like lines and triangles and all this like looking at the movement. I mean, this is well first of all, let me ask you this. What have you seen out there that you think is really You’re going to change the game. And it may not be perfect right now. But let’s say something that’s either AI or another technology. What are you excited about in terms of innovation?

Maxine Hochhouser 25:09
I think exactly what you’re talking about in the example you used, you know, I was Peyton, who’s one of our third, saying, in our holiday department, the ability to use AI to enhance someone’s capacity to function or to move. So we might not have been able to give that individual the ability to move their fingers in that way or feel their fingers moving. But through AI, we can and we use AI, we use technology to identify people at risk of falling and through an assessment. And then we actually say, hey, you know, this person is just a standing man, we show you now they’re at risk. So we can design programs around how to improve what’s happening to forestall the fall, or to strengthen their balance and improve their balance so that we can prevent that goal. So it all ties together in terms of where you wanted to give someone this sensation of, I’ve got glasses on, and I feel like I’m hitting a tennis school. And you know, I used to play tennis, and that just makes me feel better, and makes me feel good. That also people your fundamental approach and how someone feels, is really critical to their engagement in their therapy in their day to day interactions. And in wanting a meter, the positive approach to what they’re doing. And so I think all of these things, I think you’re gonna see a lot of AI, it’s gonna go fast, it’s gonna keep coming out exactly what it’s gonna look like, couldn’t answer you, I think nobody should. But we look at all these things. We constantly pilot programs that are coming out and bring them to our partners and say, Is this something we want to pilot? Is this something we want to try out and see if we can achieve more positive results for individuals? So I would just say, as an organization, we’re very forward thinking, we as an organization are probably the most diversified in the sector, you know, in terms of from where we started? And you know, that’s part of it, we just look at it, we don’t always say we have the answer. But we’re always out there talking to our partners out there who have different things that they’re doing and say, Hey, how can this enhance what we’re doing with individuals and clients?

Michael Hughes 27:30
Yeah, and I gotta say, I mean, there’s, I knew that there was a reason every time I talk to your staff, they’re always smiling.

Maxine Hochhouser 27:38
And you follow, and I, you know, everybody has a positive approach. It’s a unique organization. You know, most of our leadership are therapists of length, you know, the various disciplines. And so part of what our goal is, is to be where therapists want to work because it is fun. And we’ve had a lot of people who have been here for a long time, new people that have come in, I think, you know, people are excited about the organization. And they smile, because they enjoy what they’re doing. What’s

Michael Hughes 28:08
exciting, you most HealthPro Heritage these days, what do you, you know, if this was the end of, let’s say, 2025, and you’re just saying, oh, man, we just, we did such a good job this last year and a half, what comes to mind?

Maxine Hochhouser 28:22
We have a super group of clinicians where, you know, nobody, you’re always only as good as the people on the front line. And we’ve got great frontline clinicians that really care about what they’re doing. And they’re super passionate. And as a result, the quality of work they do is phenomenal. And that builds on itself, that quality has created a reputation. And we’ve been growing pretty quickly. And so, you know, in 2025 I want to continue with the growth, want to continue to serve more people and help people just live a great life. That’s

Michael Hughes 28:57
awesome. That’s awesome. Well, I mean, you’re busy. You’re generous with your time. Thank you so much, Maxine, but we always ask our guests three questions about their own experience with aging. And is it okay, if I asked these of you? Yes. Okay. But before we ask them, though, if somebody wants to find out more about HealthPro Heritage, where can they look,

Maxine Hochhouser 29:18
they can go onto our website, HealthProHeritage.com, or HealthPro Pediatrics, we do serve kids, we have a large division that serves pediatrics as well as adults. So it is post acute and, you know, non-hospital care, but we actually shouldn’t even say that because we do serve some hospitals and provide therapy there as well. So therapy for people of all ages, so they can go on our website.

Michael Hughes 29:47
Awesome. HealthProHeritage.com. Okay, three questions. Okay. Question number one, when you think about how you’ve aged, what do you think has changed about you or grown with you that you really like about yourself?

Maxine Hochhouser 29:58
I’ve always been into exercise, I think I’ve continued to expand that and add other exercises into my repertoire. And I still think of myself as 20. So keep pushing, always been extremely active and really now focus more on how do I maintain that level of activity? I think there’s more of a recognition that if yes, star, sometimes you may not be able to regain it. So understand that. Very good.

Michael Hughes 30:31
Well, I guess that leads into question number two, which is what has surprised you the most about you as you’ve aged?

Maxine Hochhouser 30:38
I never thought I’d get tired, but I don’t have the same capacity, but I continue to push so yeah, that’s yeah, there was a balance on yours. Most people that I’d like to sleep with for hours. I’ve actually taken naps occasionally.

Michael Hughes 31:03
So from clips from four hours of sleep at night to take any occasional nap, okay. I get that. You can definitely smell it. I mean, but then in our third question, is there someone that you’ve met or been in your life that has set a good example for you in aging, somebody that has inspired you to age with abundance?

Maxine Hochhouser 31:23
I’m actually going to say to my mother that people like good people who know me now. She has had many physical ailments where we actually thought that was it, like a fever where we’d like she’d be wheelchair bound and a stroke where we literally didn’t think she was coming into the hospital. And, you know, has she lost a lot of function? Yes. But she walks around with a walker and she plays Marzano and canasta and reads books, things going to be 90% suitable. Yes, I think she’s an inst. When I look at that, I say that it is pretty gracious aging, considering her parents died at a young age. So

Michael Hughes 32:03
sure, I bet you she only sleeps for hours. And I bet you in her past, she was one of those people.

Maxine Hochhouser 32:10
And she still goes on a recumbent bicycle every day.

Michael Hughes 32:12
That is so cool. That is a great example of that. You know what, and she’s not doing anything extraordinary right?

Maxine Hochhouser 32:18
Now, it’s just within her scope, you know? And her answer is, well, it’s because I exercise every day that when I’ve had these problems, I’m able to recuperate.

Michael Hughes 32:31
That’s it. And that’s something personally that I hope that I can achieve myself with my loved ones as I age. It’s just normal aging. And I love the fact that your mother is such a great example of normal healthy aging. Wonderful.

Maxine Hochhouser 32:44
Yes, it is. Thank you so much. Yeah, yeah, Max ate. Well. Thank

Michael Hughes 32:49
you. Maxine Houser, thank you for being a guest on the art of aging, which is part of the abundant aging podcast series. But the biggest thanks is to our listeners. Thank you for choosing to take the time to listen to this podcast and we want to hear from you. Have you had positive outcomes from repelled rehabilitative therapy? What exercises do you do that sustain you over time? What are your hopes for yourself as you age? And how have you? How did you relate your sense of function to your sense of self we want to hear from you. Visit us at abundant aging podcast.com to share your thoughts and ideas. You can also get us feedback when you visit the Ruth Frost Parker Center website at UnitedChurchHomes.org/parker-center. Visit HealthProHeritage at healthproheritage.com And please tune in for another episode of The Art of Aging. We have many available and that’s an abundanceagingpodcast.com Thanks for listening, and we’ll see you next time.