Finding Fulfillment in Unretirement

Rev. Beth Long-Higgins 00:07
Hello, and welcome to The Art of Aging, part of the Abundant Aging Podcast Series from United Church Homes. On this show, we look at what it means to age in America and in other places around the world with positive and empowering conversations that challenge, encourage and inspire all to age with abundance. Today, we are pleased to be joined by Richard Eisenberg who is an amazing leader that is driving positive conversations about aging. He has a long history in journalism, particularly in the subject of personal finance, just look at his work with Money Magazine and Next Avenue as a start. He is especially passionate about discovering and defining new models of work as one ages, and the value that grows with you as you gain experience in your career. Currently, he is unretired as an official title, and has several projects underway in podcasting and writing, especially for financial publications. And he is also involved in age related projects at NYU and Columbia food. That’s what being unretired looks like. Welcome, Richard.

Richard Eisenberg 01:14
Hi, Beth. Thanks for having me.

Rev. Beth Long-Higgins 01:16
So first of all, would you please share in your own words more about your background? And how did you find yourself in the world of aging?

Richard Eisenberg 01:24
Sure. So as you mentioned, I’m a longtime journalist, I started at Money Magazine. And I was there for about 19 years, I started there as a fact checker. And when I left, I was the executive editor. I did lots of different things there. And then it was like good housekeeping for about 10 years, I was special projects director, then it was at Yahoo. And then I was part of the launch team for Next Avenue, which is the PBS website for people over 50. We started that back in 2011. It’s still running strong now. And I stayed there for 10 years. And then I left there in January 2022. Because I wanted to begin, as you said, calling my own retirement, what I want to do is I want to keep working. But I want to wear what I want to wear too, for people who want as much as I can, but also have time to do other things that I didn’t have time to do when I had a full time job. And I would say my interest in aging partly came as I’ve gotten older myself, I’m 66 now, but also because when I started Next Avenue, we were trying to figure out what people over 50 would be interested in. And we created this website from scratch, and I was the editor of the money channel in the work and purpose channel. But I work with my colleagues there on health and lifestyle and, and caregiving issues. And the more I edited and wrote articles about it, the more interested I became an agent. And that’s where we become my passion these days.

Rev. Beth Long-Higgins 02:45
Great. Actually, I just brought up your name and a conversation a couple of hours ago with an individual who retired from full time faculty work. And she’s now working about 30 hours a week. And I said, you need to talk to Rich Eisen Berg, he sounds like you’re doing the same thing, what you want to do when you want to do it and let go of that other stuff. So can you share a little bit more about your favorite projects at this moment in your own retirement? And what are you excited to be involved in right now?

Richard Eisenberg 03:17
Sure, well, I would say there are four of them. One is that I’ve been reading a column from MarketWatch, called the view from an unretire tournament. I did that every two weeks. And it’s basically to try to help people who are either thinking about retiring or maybe are in that and trying to help them with that transition, because it can be a little challenging for people. So enjoy doing that. I’m running a program this summer, called the Digital Media Strategies program of the NYU summer publishing Institute. I did that last summer also. And I really love it. It’s a program where we bring in experts in the field of digital media to talk to students, recent college grads, and rising seniors who are interested in learning about digital media. And we give them two weeks of total immersion, where they’re having workshops and sessions all day long. And then they create a digital media brand at the end of the two weeks. And I enjoy it because I love to mentor and I also love to learn myself. And so this is a way for me to do both. The third one I guess I would say is my volunteering. On weekends, I volunteered at a place called furniture assist. And we may talk a little bit more about that later on. But I’m really enjoying that because it’s a chance to, I feel I’m being helpful. This is a place where people donate things that they no longer need in their homes, and then people who need them come and take them and those are people who are brought in through social services agencies, and I feel like it’s really helping people in on two sides and I’m getting a little exercise at the same time. And then the last project is something I just started recently. It’s a project where we’re going to be teaching high school students who don’t know very much about investing or personal finances, the basics and we’re doing it Through teaching them Warren Buffett’s Berkshire Hathaway shareholders letters. And so the teachers are going to create a course for the students. It’ll be virtual, where they’re going to have the students read the letters. And then they’re going to ask them questions about some of the key terms in them to help them understand more about investing. My job is copy editing the teachers guide. But I’m doing that by using check GBT, which is really interesting. And sometimes it works very well. And sometimes it does not.

Rev. Beth Long-Higgins 05:28
That’s just amazing, rich, you really are embodying what it means to be involved. intergenerationally and then retirement, the fact that you’re working on this curriculum for high school students, and folks at the college level, and then with your volunteering, I would imagine that’s probably people of all ages as well.

Richard Eisenberg 05:47
It is, and that’s one of the things I love most about it is there are young people. And then there are people who are retired, we work together, we talk with each other. We’re learning from them, they’re learning from us. And it’s true, I just love to do things that are intergenerational. And I think that’s so important, as you get older to try to find ways to do it. Because often that doesn’t come easily for people. And we don’t have a lot of ways that people can naturally do that. But I feel like we need to.

Rev. Beth Long-Higgins 06:16
And the fact that you’re using Warren Buffett’s letters, that’s another generation head. And so pulling his wisdom into the mix as well. That’s just fantastic. So I’m going to start with the big question here is retirement age, just,

Richard Eisenberg 06:33
I think the traditional definition of retirement is age, because it suggests you’ve left your work and you’re doing nothing. Well, you’re living a life of leisure. And I don’t want to dismiss that for people who want to be doing that. Because for some people, that’s exactly what gives them pleasure. And if that’s what you want to do, by all means do that. But for a lot of people, that’s not what retirement is these days. It’s more like, kind of what I’m doing. It’s doing a little work, doing some volunteering, spending more time with family and friends, maybe doing some traveling if you’re lucky. And so I feel like when we say retirement, that is easy, just because people think oh, that means are retired from life? And I really don’t think it should.

Rev. Beth Long-Higgins 07:18
Yeah, and it’s also so tied to a specific chronological age. And the time to make that transition for what I like to say when we have to work for healthcare. And once we are able to get on Medicare, then that kind of changes a little bit of that dynamic. And just the fact that’s based on age and assumes that, you know, once you hit a certain age, you’re not productive aren’t valuable. Yeah, I agree.

Richard Eisenberg 07:45
Well, COVID, something about that. It’s interesting. You know, I’ve been pretty public about what I’m calling my own retirement. And I can’t tell you, I’m still surprised how often this happens. I will set up an interview with somebody for an article I’m going to be writing. And the first thing they say to me, and these are usually people who know me, is, hey, I thought you were retired. Like, if I’m retired, I’m not allowed to be doing what I’m doing. And I tell them Well, this is my definition of retirement, and I am retired. But it’s not maybe the way you think retirement should be. And I’m still stunned that people still assume that’s what retirement has to mean.

Rev. Beth Long-Higgins 08:23
Yeah. And somebody today, earlier introduced themselves. She said, Yeah, I’ve flunked retirement. Yeah. You know, and quite frankly, I would hope that most of us would flunk retirement in that traditional sense. So, yeah, let’s, let’s figure out how we redefine it. And we need a new word, we need a new word. And maybe that’s the issue. We can’t find one word for everybody. Because it means so many different things.

Richard Eisenberg 08:52
Yeah, it could be I know, some people use the word rewiring, not retiring. That’s cute. And maybe that’s what it is. But I do feel you’re right that some people when they said they flunk retirement, it’s because it’s such a tricky transition. And for a lot of people, they run into issues of identity. They knew who they were when they were working, and they liked being called professor or doctor, and everybody knew them as that. And now they’re not doing that maybe at all, or maybe as much as and now they’re not quite sure who they are anymore. And sometimes they miss being introduced that way. And, you know, I talked to a guy for an article I did recently, he was talking to a friend of his who had been a doctor and now he’s retired. And he said, You know, I really sort of miss when they call me by the doctor when I’m getting a reservation at a restaurant. And he said, Well, you know, I’ve never been a doctor and I don’t mind going to restaurants and having them call me by my name. It’s not so bad.

Rev. Beth Long-Higgins 09:48
Yeah, other words I’ve heard a ri ri prior meant as an reprioritizing or inspire meant to period of inspirant yet so all kinds of options. Hands up there, but I don’t know that we’ll ever settle on one. So as we think about the transition, let’s step back for a minute and think about the workforce in general. We have a history where older adults are shutouts, and sometimes it’s 65. And sometimes that’s in the 10 years prior to 65. Because they’re getting too expensive, you know, after years of raises, but don’t we need older workers today?

Richard Eisenberg 10:29
We really do. I mean, we probably need them more than we have needed them in a long time, maybe ever, because there aren’t enough younger workers. And the work still needs to get done. And there are a lot of older people who want to keep working. Some of them need to keep working financially, but others want to just do it because they enjoy the work. And employers are making a big mistake when they are ignoring this potential workforce. They are sometimes not hiring them at all. They’re not giving them job interviews, or they’re getting rid of them when they’re looking for ways to cut back. And I feel like they’re making a big mistake.

Rev. Beth Long-Higgins 11:04
Yeah, and how much the demographics play into what we’re experiencing in terms of needing workers today.

Richard Eisenberg 11:13
A lot. There’s a great book that came out recently called the Super age by Bradley Sherman. And he makes a really interesting point, he says, You know, sometimes we think that we’re in sort of a very small time frame right now, where the job markets are tied in, so employers are going to need older workers, because, you know, they need to get the jobs done. But that’s going to pass. But the reality he says is the demographic show, it’s not going to pass. Because if you look over the next 20- 30 years, there are not going to be enough younger people climbing the ranks and wanting to work. And there are going to be more and more older people who still want to work and are able to work. And so the demographics are really on the side of older workers. The problem that they’re facing is these discrimination by employers. And I’m hoping that we’re going to see that continue to get reduced. And we’ve seen a little bit of that, I think, partly because they’ve had to, I’m hoping we’ll start seeing some of that because they realize they they need to

Rev. Beth Long-Higgins 12:12
and that and so what are we going to do? What do we need to do in our workforces, then when we have folks continuing to work long during longer periods into their later years? Whether or not that’s full time or not, or they’re on retirement? And then we have younger workers? What kind of dynamics Do you see in the workplace itself?

Richard Eisenberg 12:35
Well, what we need to see is better intergenerational multigenerational teams working together, the research I’ve seen, has shown that when they work together, they’re actually more productive and more profitable for the employers, the businesses, than teams of a particular age, whether it’s all younger or older. But a lot of employers don’t really know how to make that work. And there’s sometimes some tension and most I think it’s just misunderstandings between the older generation and the younger generation, because they work carefully. And I think what we need is more conversations to say, well, here’s how I do it, and why I do it this way. And then the other people say, Well, here’s how I did it, and why I do it this way. And then each generation maybe try a little more of the way that the other generation does it or maybe sometimes say, well, that’s not the way I would have done it. But if it works for you, that’s great. And so I’m finding that I’m doing a little bit more texting for work than I used to, I used to make phone calls and emails. And now sometimes I do more electronic versions. And I’m finding that some younger people are not so unwilling to pick up the phone and do zoom interviews also.

Rev. Beth Long-Higgins 13:43
So what would you say to the employers? Why keep older workers? Or why hire older workers? What makes them so valuable?

Richard Eisenberg 13:54
Well, you know, it’s hard to generalize, and everybody’s different. But I will say that a lot of older workers bring a lot of expertise. And so, they learned a lot, they know a lot, they’ve made mistakes, and they know the mistakes that have been made by them or other people who where they worked or places they’ve seen. And so they can sometimes help an employer in the workforce, avoid making those mistakes, because it’s already happened, not to say that, you know, things can’t be changed. But sometimes, yesterday’s mistakes aren’t necessarily gonna be a problem this time, but often they are. So I feel like the older workers bring that injured expertise, they bring wisdom. They often bring compassion and empathy because they’ve been around for a while and they know, you know, that life takes some unhappy turn sometimes and younger people haven’t experienced that quite as much. So I feel like they have a lot that they can offer. By the same token, I think there’s a lot that younger people have to offer to older workers. And you know, often that starts with technology, but not necessarily, but sometimes it’s just a different way of thinking and a different way of doing effects.

Rev. Beth Long-Higgins 15:00
I remember reading an article many years ago, then it was about an individual, I believe in California, and he had an auto repair shop. And then there were a couple guys who worked for and they were guys who worked for him for years and years. And one by one, they retired. And then he really, you know, newer mechanics were hired in. And the owner discovered that there was a definite change in the work that was being done. And the article is pointing out the fact that older workers, you know, when we played with our hands, and we were very tactile, and the younger folks, you know, have done a lot of things digitally. And he had, he brought some of the older, I believe some of the older folks back part time, just to help with thinking how to tackle the problems, and helping to guide the younger workers just because our brains have been wired. Because of some of the societal changes, including just the ways we’ve played as very young children,

Richard Eisenberg 16:09
That’s first aid in what I’d like to see employers do a better job of, is helping the older workers pass on their knowledge to the younger workers. While they’re still there, what often happens is, somebody is in their 60s or their 70s, they decide they’re going to leave the job. And you know, what happens is maybe there’s a retirement party these days, when people are working from home, often, that doesn’t even happen. But they basically walk out the door, either physically or virtually. And the people who are left, don’t know anything about how that person did their job, or who they knew. And there’s this terrific brain drain walking out the door. And I just think that’s bad management, I think it’d be so much better. If the employer said, Well, we all know that this person is leaving in six months. So before that person leaves, you know, we’re going to do XYZ so that they can pass on what they know, to the people who are going to be left. So they’ll be able to pick up the slack, and get the job just the way it was done. Or maybe better.

Rev. Beth Long-Higgins 17:11
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. So let’s say that you’re talking to one of our listeners who’s trying to enter their next phase. They’re moving beyond their primary career days. But they still didn’t want to leave the workforce, what advice would you give them? How did they make that transition?

Richard Eisenberg 17:30
So a couple of things. The first is I think, they would want to think to themselves, well, what do I want to be doing? How do I want to spend my time? Who do I want to be working with? Where do I want to be doing my work in really figure out what’s your ideal scenario, and if that includes continuing to work, where you’re working, but not as much, or maybe not from where you’re doing it, then come up with a plan that you can present to your employer, that will work for the employer and will work for you and say, This is what I like to do, I’ve been working five days a week, 1012 hour days, what I like to do is gradually phase out and do maybe four days a week, and then three and then two, or maybe go from my five days a week, to three days a week, whatever you think would be best. But what you really want to do is show the employer, it’s not gonna be a problem for the employer, that ‘s how you have figured out the way the job was still done. And there’s usually a way to do it. And maybe you say, let’s try it out, let’s have a three month or six month trial period, and see how it goes. Employers are often more willing to try that because it’s less of a risk. Some of them will say absolutely not. And that happens. But hopefully, you’ll get them to agree because they don’t want to lose you. They want to keep you as much as they can. And they also want you to be happy. And if you can find a way to do that, where you’re happy and they’re happy. That’s a really great way to go.

Rev. Beth Long-Higgins 18:56
Absolutely. Well, hopefully people can find the courage and the vision to be able to help begin to have those conversations. And ideally, it would be great if employers would initiate those conversations with individuals. So it’s left up to the individual themselves.

Richard Eisenberg 19:13
Yeah, you know, there are some employers that have phased retirement programs, but it’s pretty rare. It’s usually more ad hoc. It’s like the employee comes to the employer and says, I’d like to do this. Rarely does the employer come to the employees and say, how about doing this? You know, I understand the employers don’t want to get themselves into hot water. And there may be legal issues about, you know, making a suggestion that person is going to be, you know, out the door. So often I understand why it falls to the employee. And I also understand why some employees are reluctant to do it because they don’t want to take the chance of the employer saying no, and then the employer may think well, gee, this person doesn’t really want to work here any longer. So it is a little scary to do it. But I think these days, it’s hot. happening more and more. And so employers are a little more understanding and grateful to have those conversations than a few years ago when it was just so rare.

Rev. Beth Long-Higgins 20:09
There are also situations where either the employer is not open to that. Or it may be the kind of situation where for confidentiality or whatever reasons, it’s not appropriate for the person to stay in that particular company. Do you have any best practices? So how would I go out into the world and approach somebody else? Another business could be completely outside of my field or within my field to say, Hey, would you know, do you have positions that are part time for older workers? How do you even begin to have those conversations or find those opportunities?

Richard Eisenberg 20:48
Well, it’s not easy, but it’s possible. There are more and more job boards that are listing part time jobs, remote jobs in a way that wasn’t true before. So I would say I would look for those to see which ones exist. But I would also think about employers that I’d like to work for, maybe they’re local, maybe they’re not. And I snooped around a little bit on their website, or talked to people who work there and just see, is it being done at all? You know, what’s their attitude toward that? And if you can’t find out, but you want to do it, then you know, put yourself in front of the employer and say, This is what I would like to do and how I’d like to do it. And when, you know, the worst that will happen also say, Sorry, we don’t do it that way. But there’s a good chance that they’ll say, Well, let’s talk, let’s see. Or they’ll say, Well, maybe we can do this on a contract basis, where you’ll be doing this for the next three months or six months. So that may not be exactly what you have in mind. But it’s a start. So I would say, you know, it forced you to be proactive, but I would say it’s more possible now than it ever was probably.

Rev. Beth Long-Higgins 21:52
So in some ways, you may need to develop some kind of entrepreneurial mindsets, when we enter the stage to become consultants, or like you said contracted work, which may be completely a new set of skills that we thought we had to do previously.

Richard Eisenberg 22:09
That’s right. A lot of people find when they’re undetermined that they are becoming consultants, or they’re doing gig work, or they’re doing similar work to what they did before, but not exactly the same. But I would also say that these days, most people who get any kind of job full time or part time, do it through referrals, not through job boards. So the more you can get the word out that this is what you’re looking for, to people that you know, on LinkedIn, any way that you can, you know, through community organizations or religious organizations, wherever, you know, chances are, you will ultimately find somebody who knows somebody who can tell you about a job that you might want to do.

Rev. Beth Long-Higgins 22:50
Yeah, and then there’s the individual who wants to do something completely different. I had a colleague who served the local churches for probably close to 40 years. His daughter lived in Central Florida and their family loved Disney World. And so his dream on retirement was to work at Disney World. And he had to start out working in the gift shop, which he wasn’t too fond of. But his goal, his dream on retirement, was to drive one of the shuttle services that kind of went from the resorts to the parks and whatnot. So you may also be just completely doing something completely new, completely different, but something that gives you energy and joy.

Richard Eisenberg 23:34
Well, that’s right. And that’s one of the things that’s best about this time of life is if you’re healthy enough to do it, and not everybody is but if you are, it’s a chance to try new things and to explore it to let yourself fail and try something that you’ve always wanted to do. Or maybe you did when you were a kid. But now’s the time you’re going to do it. There’s one shovel I interviewed a few years ago, named Sean Eskenazi, who had been a very successful lawyer for many years. But he got increasingly disenchanted with being a lawyer. What he was really enchanted with was chocolate. And so he started what is now Eskenazi chocolates. And he loves doing it. And part of why he likes to do it is not only because it’s it was a passion of his but he’s helping people in other parts of the world, make a living weren’t able to do it before because they are now you know, growing the chocolate in a way that they didn’t have an opportunity to before making a living so they’re happier and he’s happier.

Rev. Beth Long-Higgins 24:33
I love that word. What a chance for you. Yeah, that. That’s a great way to think about it. You had in your opening talk, just briefly about your volunteer work. Was there something else that you wanted to mention about that experience for you for that organization?

Richard Eisenberg 24:50
Well, I guess the only thing I would say that I didn’t is I really admire the gentleman who started. His name is Dawson Yeomans to most people. You’ve never heard of him before. But he and he’s the guy who he is now in his I will say, mid to late 80s. And he started this on his own. A few years ago, he had been a computer tech person for all of his career. And he just felt like there was a need to help people who were in tough situations who needed furniture and household goods, but didn’t have the income. And so they, he then, and he also was there a lot of people who wanted to downsize or didn’t need things, they had no homes, they didn’t know what to do with their stuff. And so he matched them up. And you know, and he’s there every Saturday and Sunday and works on it during the week. And you know, he’s doing it as a volunteer like the rest of us are. But I’m just so inspired to see how he took his idea and turned it into something that’s so helpful for people. And you just see the smiles on people’s faces, both when they’re taking things and when they’re delivering things. And I’m just a huge fan of what he’s done.

Rev. Beth Long-Higgins 25:59
We’ll talk about somebody who is doing something completely different. And we also, when we talk about an individual being called or part of their spiritual journey, it’s that connection when we see a world, a need in the world. And we’re able to find a way to meet that need. And that sounds like exactly what he’s doing. And it’s great that his organization allows you and other volunteers to participate in that as well. That’s fantastic. Thank you. So just before we get into our last three questions, we ask all our guests, I want to reflect on you and your role as a journalist in this space. What are we not covering? What should we be covering when it comes to aging? What stories are we not telling that it would be helpful for the general public to hear?

Richard Eisenberg 26:55
I’d like to see more stories about people in this stage of life, doing new things. And I don’t mean parachuting out of an airplane, which is fine. I’m happy when people do it. But there are a lot of the rest of us who aren’t ever going to do that. But we are finding ways that are fulfilling. And I don’t feel like we’re seeing enough of those stories. And I think we’re not seeing enough stories aren’t that help people to figure out how to do that. So I’d like to see a little bit more of that in a little less about the war between the generations. I feel like that’s really not as real as the articles might sometimes be.

Rev. Beth Long-Higgins 27:35
I think you need to make sure the story is told about the gentleman you were just telling us about and the organization that he’s formed.

Richard Eisenberg 27:42
Yeah, well, I wrote an article from MarketWatch. About that. So I’m hoping people will find that too. You know, I wrote an article at Next Avenue A few years ago that turned out to be one of the most popular articles that the site ever ran. It was called sorry, nobody wants your parents stuff. And, okay, me, and I wrote to her because my father had just passed away. And my sister and I were suddenly in this position of needing to quickly figure out what to do with the things he had in his apartment, which was not very big, and my mother had passed away a few years ago. But they needed everything out very quickly, because they wanted to read that for somebody else. And we quickly found, there were very few people who wanted the things he had. And I mean, charities would say no to the furniture. And it was just so frustrating. And so when I heard about this place’s furniture system, that actually was helping people who wanted to find a home for their parents for their own stuff. I was delighted. I felt like my journalism and my volunteering found a home together.

Rev. Beth Long-Higgins 28:41
That’s great. Thanks. Yeah. And I really did read that article. And I think it was about the time that my father in law was moving into assisted living. And he passed away about nine months later, but one of the biggest obstacles for him leaving his apartment and moving into assisted living was his stuff. Yeah, he had a lovely dining room set. And he none of those six kids or 14 grandkids had room for this. And he wasn’t willing to let go of it. And yeah, so it only happened after he could no longer make that decision itself. So yeah, that’s a whole nother conversation about, like over stuff.

Richard Eisenberg 29:25
Yeah, we can talk about that in paternity.

Rev. Beth Long-Higgins 29:27
Exactly. So, three questions we like to ask all of our guests at the end of our podcast. Are you ready? I know that we’ve shared these with you ahead of time, so listeners know that you or maybe you want them to think oh, I’m just thinking of this off the top of my head. But Question number one, when you think about how you’ve aged, what do you think has changed about you or grown with you that you really like about yourself?

Richard Eisenberg 29:53
I think I would say it is my changing priorities I learned when I was younger. I really cared all about work in, you know, everything else was very much secondary. And as I’ve gotten older, I still care about work. But I really put much more priority on family and friendship in the recent years, much more about friendship than I had in the past. And so I’m enjoying finding opportunities to reconnect with old friends, and sometimes get together with them, and catch up. And I feel like that’s something that, that I’m proud about and happy about. And I’ve also sort of lost a little bit of some of the anger issues I had when I was starting in my career. And I think probably a lot of that was insecurity, but I feel like I’m a little happier and easier going these days.

Rev. Beth Long-Higgins 30:41
Fantastic. Thanks. Okay. Question number two, what has surprised you most? As you’ve aged,

Richard Eisenberg 30:50
I guess the importance of meaning and purpose in my life. I feel like, you know, that was always sort of tucked away in the back of my head. But I feel like, as I get older, and I’m, you know, I just feel like, you know, what can I be doing to be helpful? And where can I find meaning and purpose in my life? I wrote an article for MarketWatch about ikigai and maybe not pronouncing it the way I ought to forgive me for that. But it’s a Japanese term that basically means a reason to get up in the morning. And I feel like all of us need to find that in particular when we’re in our retirement years to find that Yuki guy, and if you can do that, and it may be one thing, and maybe a few things, I think it’ll give you a lot more happiness. And that’s what I’m trying to do.

Rev. Beth Long-Higgins 31:36
Great. Absolutely. Okay. And finally, the last one, is there someone you’ve met, or who has been in your life that has set a good example to you, for aging someone that inspires you to age abundantly?

Richard Eisenberg 31:49
Well, I guess I have to go back to the men I was just talking about before Dawson Yeomans. He’s a man who, you know, found a need where people needed things. And there were people who didn’t need things in which he could be helpful in putting them together. But also that he realized that in his 80s, he could be helpful and do something that he’d never done before. And he does it with a smile. And he’s always the first one there every Saturday and Sunday morning, the last one to leave. And I see how much he enjoys it. And the fact that he’s happy, brings me joy, and everybody who sees him and volunteers there as well. And that’s a role model that I aspire to.

Rev. Beth Long-Higgins 32:32
Absolutely, thank you. And thank you to our listeners for listening to this episode of The Art of aging podcast of the abundant aging podcast series from United Church Jones. We want to hear from you. What’s changed about you as you’ve aged that you love? What has surprised you most? And how do you define abundant aging and who is your abundant aging hero or your abundant aging influencer? Join us at abundant aging podcast.com to share your ideas. You can also give us feedback when you visit the Bruce frost Parker Center website at United Church homes.org. And Richard, where can people find you today and you’re on retirement?

Richard Eisenberg 33:13
Well, I work from my home in Westfield, New Jersey. That’s where you can find me literally, but figuratively, you could find me on Market Watch. The comps called the view from one retirement on Next Avenue where I write fairly often about money and work issues for Fortune where I’m writing about Medicare these days, and also a podcast that I’ve been doing for a few years called friends talk money, which I do with Pam Krueger and Terry savage and people can get that wherever they get their podcasts. Thank you.

Rev. Beth Long-Higgins 33:40
Thank you very much, Rich. Peace.